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  #1  
03-09-2004, 12:46 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Is usefull hybridfupp (http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9063) for DivX/XviD --> KVCD conversion?
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  #2  
03-09-2004, 01:02 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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As EVERYTIME .. it depends on the source! And of course the Quality of the mpeg4 youre goint into with.

HybridFupp gots a lot of options to set and it also uses a lot of postprocessing-routines to ged rid of blocks.
Just do a try and see the result by yourself and decide.

I figured out that this script uses Fluxsmooth and unsharpen only for spatial sharpening so it would be useful do tests using better/other smoothing routines which can be easely changed in the function.

These tries in the thread there where just the first ones and it will take some time to find even better tweaks or settings for dif. kind of mpeg sources or source Qualities.
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  #3  
03-09-2004, 01:31 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I tried it with preset "Hight" but it was too sharpen for a Divx.
Preset "Medium" (if I remember well) were far better.

But... I dropped everything when I decieded to try the last deen version (realease beta 1.0 from taht I had since 15/08/2003).

This version is awesome (as much as Fupp but 20x faster ). I'm currently testing it.
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  #4  
03-09-2004, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
I tried it with preset "Hight" but it was too sharpen for a Divx.
Preset "Medium" (if I remember well) were far better.

But... I dropped everything when I decieded to try the last deen version (realease beta 1.0 from taht I had since 15/08/2003).

This version is awesome (as much as Fupp but 20x faster ). I'm currently testing it.
Well, let us know it when you have something. Thanks You.
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  #5  
03-09-2004, 02:07 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
This version is awesome (as much as Fupp but 20x faster ). I'm currently testing it.
You are comparing ONE spatial Filter with a whole function which does partial soften?
But I agree in case of cleaning Deens quality increased much!
As I said, ... that Function can be tweaked and maybe just the echange to deen as spatial filter in that function will do a very good job.
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  #6  
03-09-2004, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You are comparing ONE spatial Filter with a whole function which does partial soften?
Inc ? Deen is a spatio-temporal filter !
And you should really look at this release. It's FAR better than the previous one.

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....highlight=deen

The only problem I have is that there is no clue about wich are the default values used
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  #7  
03-09-2004, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Inc ? Deen is a spatio-temporal filter !
Yeah right!

I "used" the last time (months) Deen only as a potential spatial filter used as "a2d", combinated with Temporalsoften() but Ill test it more. Thats why I got focussed in my mind the "spatial" aspect.

On many many captures just a Deen("a2d",1,5,8 ).Temporalsoften(2,3,5,15,2) did little wonders

Quote:
The only problem I have is that there is no clue about wich are the default values used
What do you mean? maybe I do not understand your last comment.

Quote:
Finally, defaults are : deen("c3d",1,7,9,4,6,0.5,9,"") "
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  #8  
03-09-2004, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
On many many captures just a Deen("a2d",1,5,8 ).Temporalsoften(2,3,5,15,2) did little wonders
You are using the old version. New one syntax is :
Code:
Deen(clip, str mode, int rad, int thrY, int thrUV, int tthY, int tthUV, float min, float scd, string fcf)
Note that fcf = control file where you can tell deen to use different paramters accoprding to frame range (usefull to compress more the credits for instance).
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  #9  
03-09-2004, 06:48 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Im already using the new one and "a2d",1,5,8 str+int are still at the same place so I didn't need the temp Threshs

But Ill chaeck that out on my tonight done capture of "24h day2"
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  #10  
03-09-2004, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
But Ill check that out on my tonight done capture of "24h day2"
Can you just use "Deen()" please ?

I compared to HybrydFupp with "High" settings : it's almost as good, the file size is almost as small, and the time to encode was exactly 10x faster.

And if you can find out what are the default values used in this deen version, I will be happy to read them
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  #11  
03-09-2004, 07:59 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Could you post a link to the latest version of Deen, bitte

-kwag
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  #12  
03-09-2004, 08:09 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Three posts above I gave the thread where Boulder was talking about this version. The link is within it
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  #13  
03-09-2004, 08:12 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Three posts above I gave the thread where Boulder was talking about this version. The link is within it
But that's Deen 1.0 beta 1
And that post was on December.
Is that the latest

-kwag
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  #14  
03-10-2004, 03:53 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Yep, its very confusing but the one from Warpenterprises is from beginning of 2003 and the one there at the french forum is much newer!

@ Phil

I still do not understand you as the defaults where quoted in Boulders posting.

Yep Deen() in the new version is a bit more powerful but still just using it in Spatial Mode and a TempSoften afterwards does end up better (IMHO).

(As you already know) The HybFupp function follows a total diff. Purpose - I don't explain that to you as I don't have to but in case of noobs who are reading this and maybe getting confused.

HubFupp does works on a more detailed edgedetection where its choosen WHICH resizer is taken - soft - medium - sharp ... ok, that is also what MA does as asharp is used and the relative amount of unfilter afterwards.
But the sexy thing of HybFupp i that it works "partial"! Means not the whole frame will be touched but the areas where its needed and in a more detailed way than a simple spatial/temporal denoiser can do.

The problem of the internal combination of spat/temporal of deen in c3d mode is that at worse sources the plain areas do appear more swimming then if treated as temporal using tempSoften but on the other hand Tempsoften at very noisy sources and heavy settings leaves "static" dots on moving faces and moving Walls etc.

In the last 2 weeks I did try more using eDeen as its a very poweful (but also tricky) spatial only denoiser. Deen seems to have a bug if used in combination with conditional filtering environment like MA does. On my machine it ends up after ca. 20 sec. with an evaluation error of avisynth.
even if set "setmemorymax=256". So as I only needed the spatial compount of it I tried instead edeen and no more errors did come up.
Same thing if used within HybridFupp instead of fluxsmooth's spatial work.

Is I said there are still much more reservs in that HybridFupp function logic ... it only has to be more tweaked for special purposes:

- blocky mpeg4's
- clean d2v (where its working perfect as it is now)
- noisy captures or bad noisy DVD sources (remember my "Black Rain" example in the "How Funny" thread.


Inc.
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  #15  
03-10-2004, 04:44 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
But that's Deen 1.0 beta 1
And that post was on December.
Is that the latest
I don't know if this is the latest, but this is the one I test since yesterday. As I said, I had this since months (the dll was release in August) but never had the time to test it.
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  #16  
03-10-2004, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I still do not understand you as the defaults where quoted in Boulders posting.
I didn't read it since months and dindn't even think to do

Quote:
(As you already know) The HybFupp function follows a total diff. Purpose - I don't explain that to you as I don't have to but in case of noobs who are reading this and maybe getting confused.
Yes. I didn't meant that Deen was in the same area the HybridFupp. That is a complete misunderstanding of my words.

It's just that while I was again in script testing, I suddenly remember I had this "old new" deen to test. And the results I obtained make me forget HybridFupp.

Let's talk about numbers : I encoded a KDVD sample with HyridFupp and CCE. The encoding speed was.... 0.04x !!! 40 Minutes to encode a 1 min sample . It was 0.10 with HybFup in "Medium" preset and 0.40 with Deen. I let you guess why I dropped HybriFupp (I can't even imagine to use it in Tmpgenc )

Quote:
The problem of the internal combination of spat/temporal of deen in c3d mode is that at worse sources the plain areas do appear more swimming then if treated as temporal using tempSoften but on the other hand Tempsoften at very noisy sources and heavy settings leaves "static" dots on moving faces and moving Walls etc.
I think I am using "a3d" and not "c3d". But the results are closed to what you are saying.

Quote:
In the last 2 weeks I did try more using eDeen as its a very poweful
Powerfull ? I removes ANYthing ! That's not a filter, that's a detail vaccuum !
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  #17  
03-10-2004, 07:40 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Let's talk about numbers : I encoded a KDVD sample with HyridFupp and CCE. The encoding speed was.... 0.04x !!! 40 Minutes to encode a 1 min sample . It was 0.10 with HybFup in "Medium" preset and 0.40 with Deen. I let you guess why I dropped HybriFupp (I can't even imagine to use it in Tmpgenc )

Man thats slow and I think you don't got such a slow machine on your own.
In my case (to see the speed ralative) HybFupp took a "little bit" more time than MA, but who cares if seen the whole in quality aspects. So something is going on strange in your machine (just IMHO).

Quote:
Quote:
In the last 2 weeks I did try more using eDeen as its a very poweful
Powerfull ? I removes ANYthing ! That's not a filter, that's a detail vaccuum !
Yep, BUT my intention was to modify MA so that the spatial "Cannon" does its job on fast moving scenes (threshold based kick in when nf>15 or 20 for example), means now 3 filtering processes inside the conditional routine of MA.
That intention is for capture-stream purposes!! If the stream is very noisy just an unfilter on fast moving scenes by nf*2 or even nf*nf does still leave many unnecessary uneasy details interpreted by the enoder afterwards.
It works very well! And rises the CQ recognisable.
(Tested on that like a noise-crap broadcasted "24h day2" capture)

But there's still that "static-objects-in-foreground-while-fast-changes-in-background-do-occur"-Risk as the whole frame will be processed.
And here I see a possibility in HybFupp where only the moving objects will be tretated.

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  #18  
03-10-2004, 08:06 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
In my case (to see the speed ralative) HybFupp took a "little bit" more time than MA, but who cares if seen the whole in quality aspects. So something is going on strange in your machine (just IMHO).
It's seems hard to me to have so little change in the time as in Hight preset HybFupp uses Lanczos as resizer. And Lanczos is 10% slower than Bicubic. But you perhaps used "medium" ?
An other point : I used "true" for Chroma, and not False as suggested in some post if I remember well.

Quote:
(Tested on that like a noise-crap broadcasted "24h day2" capture)
Did you ever tried my script for avi on such sources ?
My test on Deen and Hybrid are done with this script. I just remplace "C3d" by Deen in the first case, and all from "blindPP" to "C3d" by hybrid in the second case.
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  #19  
03-10-2004, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
But you perhaps used "medium" ?
An other point : I used "true" for Chroma, and not False as suggested in some post if I remember well.
I do not remeber exactly but I think it was even "low" but in that case more filtering is applied, so
But I used chroma=false, thats true.

Quote:
Did you ever tried my script for avi on such sources ?
For shure!
But it depends on the "arbitary" noise level, if there's not that much noise, it ends up very well but in case of medium/lot of noise at moving surfaces... risky, risky.
Your script to me seems very well purposed for heavy encoded mpeg based sources and most mpeg sources where made from less noise DVD sources IMHO. So to me seems that your last opt.Script routine does a perfect job on "recodnisable- or risk-on-dctBlocks" inputs/outputs.

My next step will be to find a way to do filtering on Y and UV separately, but not by the internal filter separation like CNR2 does, I want to do that via avisynth ... "like" this.

y=SelectY().resize().DoingTheFilters()
uv=SelectUV().resize().DoingTheFilters()
return ColorChannellMerge(y,uv)

Thats also very useful in case of interlaced 4:2:0 chroma subsampling where we do suffer a bit from less chroma freq. than Luma freq. Could be maybe a nice way to cure a bit blurring chroma on edges in case of interlaced 4:2:0

Headeache!
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  #20  
03-10-2004, 09:50 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Just downloaded Deen beta 2.
It' s here: http://ziquash.chez.tiscali.fr/
Runing some tests right now

-kwag
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